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| Bleach Manga; Discussion on Bleach manga: SPOILERS | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 8 2006, 01:43 PM (123,274 Views) | |
| PuffyCow | Apr 8 2006, 01:43 PM Post #1 |
LN's Resident Playah
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A place to talk about Bleach without having to hide your text! I guess I will clear things up for the limits held by shinigami in the "real world". Limits are placed on shinigami when entering the "real world" as to not disrupt the fragile balance in power there. It limits only the amount of usable energy...not abilities. Because bankai status requires so much energy, it cannot be achieved in the real world because it would surpass the limit. Ichigo, however, was born in the real world, and developed his powers there as well. Soul Society has no control over him, and therefor cannot up a limit on him. Moving on: Bankai. Bankai can only be achieved with a ridiculous amount of time and spiritual energy developed...taking years to just call upon bankai. Once in bankai, it takes another life time to achieve final bankai status. Final bankai status is more or less like the "finish him" move is mortal combat. If you don't kill your opponent with this...then your as good as finished. Within there two points are a wide array of attacks one can use in bankai, all of which take time to achieve as well. To roughly quote Byukaya (or however you spell his name) "to achieve bankai is the pinnacle of a shinigami" Basically, its your peak, and you may level off for a bit but there is no going up from there (that he knows of...hehehe) Anyway, every user who achieves bankai has his name etched into a memorial stone, marking that achievement. To sum it up...yeah, its a big deal to achieve bankia...a real big deal...and one hell of a feat. One last thing: OVA aren't mean to fit into the current plot. Ichigo using his bankai in that means nothing to the current story line. Feel free to ask any questions or start any discussions about Bleach which may contain spoilers here. :D |
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| albert_2mb | Apr 8 2006, 11:47 PM Post #2 |
Ninja Academy Student
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Those 2 sentences contradict each other. Bankai requires skill, and the energy it requires depends on the amount of energy you HAVE, so it's not fixed up. The strength difffers, though. As u can see in chapters 200 and above Hitsugaya and his friend use their bankai.. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 13 2006, 07:24 PM Post #3 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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well, I never said it didn't require skill. Of course it requires a gargantuan amount of skill. But, it is not necessarily a fixed rate. The skill you speak of is the ability to control their own spirit energy. Thus, being able to refine and use a giant amount of your spirit energy takes huge amount of skill. And with that skill, you are able to summon bankai. I see no contradictions in my statement...although that could just be because I wrote it. |
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| Zetsu | Apr 13 2006, 08:40 PM Post #4 |
S-ranked Plant
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Any good, strong shinigami could be able to use bankai in even less than a year (as shown with Ichigo). But I think Byakuya (?) said that mastering Bankai was on a whole other level (against Renji after cutting down Renji's bankai). If I'm correct, I think limits are only placed only captains and vice-captains, although there may be some exceptions. I think Renji explained that to Ichigo during their second encounter/fight. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 14 2006, 10:50 PM Post #5 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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I think you are right with the limits. But, I think you are wrong with the bankia. Shinigami's live nearly forever (as far as we can tell). This would mean that many, many shinigami would have bankai. But, only captains (and some vice-captains, and one seated officer) can achieve bankai, its one hell of a feat. To achieve the rank of vice-captain, you do not need bankai. Therefore, only 13 people in all of soul society are expected to possess it. It took Ichigo so short of time because not only was he born with a jaw-dropping amount of spirit energy to begin with because his father was an ex-shinigami captain, but also because he used the Urahara technique to achieve bankai. With this technique, you either get it in a short period of time or you die. Plus, this technique is not only complete but it is also banned from being used. |
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| Zetsu | Apr 15 2006, 01:19 AM Post #6 |
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I know three days is quite an extremely impressive time to achieve bankai. But I'm saying achieving Bankai is one thing, mastering it is another. Question: What happens to Shinigami/people in Soul Society (again) that die? |
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| Darkstar | Apr 15 2006, 01:21 AM Post #7 |
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They go back into the real world, the living world, its an endless cycle. That's why people think Ichigo is the reincarnation of Shiba Kaien, since they look alike. |
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| Zetsu | Apr 15 2006, 01:24 AM Post #8 |
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Maybe, but Shiba and Ichigo's personalities are a bit different. |
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| Clueless | Apr 15 2006, 01:34 AM Post #9 |
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Do you happen to know of another site where I can buy Bleach manga? |
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| Darkstar | Apr 15 2006, 01:36 AM Post #10 |
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Personalities have nothing to do with reincarnation, it's just looks. If you ask me Kaien and Ichigo have the same kind of personalities, it really shows in the anime (I know). Like I said, personalities have nothing to do with reincarnation. Edit: You scared me Gaara, I thought I posted in the wrong thread. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 15 2006, 06:23 PM Post #11 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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No one thinks Ichigo is the reincarnation of Shiba Kaien. When the captains see him and are amazed are question who he is (IE the 13th division captain whose name I forget and Byakuya) because of his relation to the EX captain, Kurosaki Isshin (obviously Ichigos father). That is the only time I can you of which you are referring to, and it was because of that. And to respond to your question, Zetsu....I have no idea. They have never addressed that topic that I know of. By the way, dont use Wikipedia as a source...it is chalk full of wrong information. |
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| Clueless | Apr 16 2006, 10:03 PM Post #12 |
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Up to chapter 201...Awesome stuff. |
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| Zetsu | Apr 17 2006, 04:35 PM Post #13 |
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Ya, Ikkaku is worthy and powerful enough to be a weaker captain. I wonder what would've happened if he accepted Renji's offer to become a captain... |
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| Clueless | Apr 17 2006, 05:26 PM Post #14 |
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Caught up...IDK, I'm getting mixed feelings for the Manga. At times, I roll my eyes at it and think about how similiar it is to DBZ, and how predictable the events are. But at other moments...it is enticing. The characters are interesting, the plot is interesting...but the formula for the battles are too predictable. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 23 2006, 09:41 AM Post #15 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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that is true, although as for now there isn't much room to make battles that different. Ichigo knows something like 3-5 moves, and that is it...remember, this is still the beginning, and right now ichigo just finished his training to become visored, sado is training as well, and it seems everyone (but orihime, although that will change shortly) has just started to greatly improve. The battles will get real intense soon. But, still, I don't see any fights really work out the same...they all have twists and and turns I do not predict at all. I think the only predictable thing is the end result. |
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| Clueless | Apr 23 2006, 03:20 PM Post #16 |
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Well...I see what you are saying in ref. towards things getting better. However, if some protagonists don't die against the (cant remember name...strongest form of hollow/shinigami...the ones that look like normal humans) then I will be pissed. It needs to be somewhat more realistic. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 24 2006, 01:53 PM Post #17 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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I believe you refer to the Arrancar. Anyway, yeah, I agree with that part. They started off amazing, with dudes dieing left and right, blood gushing everywhere...now, nothing seems to happen much in the way of realism. Although, if you think about it, there hasn't been a fight in a long time in which someone could die. Only the Ichigo vs. anti-Ichigo fight, and before that the fight with the Arrancar all of them died expect the main leader, the espada named grim-jaw. Many things are dieing, its just there hasn't been a fight. Give it time, and you will see people die. Except the good guys, which pisses me off. No one has died who has been good expect in memories or non-important characters. What I hope they talk about is Ichigos father (who was an ex-captain, and left soul society for reasons unknown) and what the advantages to being a visor gives you. |
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| Clueless | Apr 24 2006, 02:04 PM Post #18 |
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Advantage of being a Visor: When its halloween, you don't have to bother going out and buying a mask, you've already got one
:D . Oh, and Chad...hes not, Quincy or Shinigami...hes mexican. His Bankai has the power to create a neverending nachos and cheese festival. (None the less...I thought only shinigami, or, people with a zanpak. could preform a bankai.) |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 25 2006, 05:43 PM Post #19 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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Chad cant preform bankai, but can reach a bankai level. That is roughly what Urahara said. Although I don't know how it works, and if you can turn it off either...but we do know that he can achieve a level which is equivalent to a bankai. |
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| Clueless | Apr 25 2006, 09:46 PM Post #20 |
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The sad thing is...I predicted this. Im sure Orihime has something similiar too. Something like how her little umpa lumpa that fights, can grow to be a massive size, or her sheild becomes an orb, or that she can revive. I mean, stuff like this isnt all THAT surprising. I bet if she took off her shirt...she would knock out the enemy cold, similiar to Naruto's Sexy no Jutsu. Plus, it would make the show even more entertaining ;) |
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| Darkstar | Apr 25 2006, 10:14 PM Post #21 |
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I don't normaly come here, so that why I'm responding to an old post. I rarely use Wikipedia as a source and in this case, I wasn't, I wasn't even thinking of Wikipedia at the time. Byakuya talks about the resemblance in the manga. He obvously talking about how Kaien looks like Ichigo, than how Ichigo looks like his father, they don't look alike at all. I could bring up more, if you want. That might be part of the reason Rukia is protecting Ichigo so much, she had a crush on Kaien. |
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| PuffyCow | Apr 26 2006, 03:57 PM Post #22 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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yep, your right. I wasn't referring to that section, though. I thought you meant when the thirteenth captain was talking with Byukaka (in the anime), which now that I see was about Kaien as well. Good call on that one, that went way above my head. And to gaarared...I concur |
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| Jammy | May 26 2006, 09:13 AM Post #23 |
Ninja Academy Student
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Personally i think the manga has slipped slightly. Before, during the rescue of Rukia it was really good, but we have jumped from one major fight arc to another one with little back story. There's alot going on at once right now, and i'm having a hard time understanding what is what. And sadly this is becoming very much like Dragon Ball Z with swords. Because everyone is floating all of a sudden, slashing each other once then flying into a building and not being hurt and this whole power up buisness. And what really annoyed me was Kisuke stating that Yasutora has the potential of forming his own style Bankai. It's not like we have enough Shinigami's doing it, we've got poor Yasutora doing it now. But i have to admit, seeing an evolved Hollow Ichigo was pure badass. |
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| PuffyCow | May 26 2006, 06:38 PM Post #24 |
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LN's Resident Playah
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I agree that they jumped into the next arc way too quick, but it was so that it wouldn't turn into a Naruto thing. They wanted the anime to be on another arc with as little fillers as possible, and by having the manga plow through right into the next arc allows for less fillers, and more happy fans. Ont he dragonball thing, you are half right. No shinigami has flown, only, only the aracannar and Ichigo in his bankai form. Ichigo is able to "fly" because he is so fast, he can repeated kick the air as to hover, which makes sense seeing as how he is fast as balls. The aracaanar: well, they are just not human. They probably have the ability to do that simply because they were made in hugo mundo. Also, another misinterpretation in your translated version of the manga you read. He did not say Chado could achieve bankai, but rather for a limited time he is able to up his power so that he can fight against a bankai. Thus, he is able to virtually get his own bankai, even though it is absolutely nothing like a shinigami's. So, Chado will never be able to get bankai, but what Kisuke said was that Chado would be able to tap power inside in order to fight against a bankai. This was fairly predictable, though, or else how could he ever fight against the aracanaar if he could not fight against a bankai? Anyway, my interest lies in Orhime's power. I believe it to be that of the big old Visor's power. Hachi, I believe, is his name. Perhaps there is some blood relation between the two? Anyway, the power Hachi appears to posses would be the ultimate "bankai" form of Orihimes, which I cannot wait to see. Will Hachi become Orihime's sensei, perhaps? I hope so. EDIT: Just read chapter 228, and it appears...I WAS RIGHT!!! Hutch does share the same powers as Orhime, and it appears Hutch will teach Orihime her true potential soon enough. Oh I cannot wait. And its good to see Orhime back to her old, awesome self. |
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| Clueless | Jul 30 2006, 04:10 PM Post #25 |
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OMG chapter 237 nearly made me cry. It was so sad to see what happened with Inoue. I don't really understand why the hell she wouldn't just tell everyone. Now she's gonna get raped by the arrancar. |
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