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Chapter Rating
10 23 (39.7%)
9 8 (13.8%)
8 15 (25.9%)
7 5 (8.6%)
6 2 (3.4%)
5 1 (1.7%)
4 0 (0%)
3 1 (1.7%)
2 2 (3.4%)
1 1 (1.7%)
Total Votes: 58
Chapter 519 Discussion
Topic Started: Dec 2 2010, 08:48 PM (7,915 Views)
Syndacite
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Yep its back.
[ *  *  *  * ]
Retcon Rassengan much? Well this chapters only highlight was sasori and deidara being left in puppet puppet and screaming. Other then that it seems like Kishi is pulling more stuff out of his ass to over complicate something that really didn't need to need any other details. Let alone another deus ex machina about how everything was perfectly set up for Naruto.

Chapter gets a 1 only for Deidara cursing in a prison.
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Mohrpheus
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Glory with the Moon. Mercy on the Earth.
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Well, seeing as this chapter didn't contradict anything we already know about the Rasengan, it can't really be called a "retcon."

And seeing as Minato taught the technique to Jiraiya who resolved to teach it to Naruto, it isn't far fetched that he intended for his son to eventually inherit the technique somehow. The rest is just Killer Bee's conjecture, unless he knows something that we don't. The Rasengan is Minato's legacy, and is the primary weapon of our lead character. It's about damn time we actually get some kind of background about it.

As for when and where Minato saw a Biju use its attack, my theory is that it could have been Han or Roushi's, since he fought in the Third Shinobi World War. He didn't use a Rasengan in Kakashi Gaiden, so it's perfectly possible, but this would conflict with the fact that Kakashi created the Chidori because he couldn't fuse the lightning element to the Rasengan. But Kakashi Gaiden only showed the end of the war, so who knows? That's my little pet theory anyway.
Edited by Mohrpheus, Dec 2 2010, 09:14 PM.
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Sardaukar
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I Ain't Even Mad
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419?

Kishi retconned us a hundred chapters back, nooooooooooo!.com



Spoiler: click to toggle
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Twilight_Ninja
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Jounin
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Mohrpheus
Dec 2 2010, 08:58 PM
Well, seeing as this chapter didn't contradict anything we already know about the Rasengan, it can't really be called a "critique."

And seeing as Minato taught the technique to Jiraiya who resolved to teach it to Naruto, it isn't far fetched that he intended for his son to eventually inherit the technique somehow. The rest is just Killer Bee's conjecture, unless he knows something that we don't. The Rasengan is Minato's legacy, and is the primary weapon of our lead character. It's about damn time we actually get some kind of background about it.

As for when and where Minato saw a Biju use its attack, my theory is that it could have been Han or Roushi's, since he fought in the Third Shinobi World War. He didn't use a Rasengan in Kakashi Gaiden, so it's perfectly possible, but this would conflict with the fact that Kakashi created the Chidori because he couldn't fuse the lightning element to the Rasengan. But Kakashi Gaiden only showed the end of the war, so who knows? That's my little pet theory anyway.
Just to add to this, he could have possibly also seen Kushina using the Bijuu Bomb since she was a Kyuubi Jinchuuriki with a special chakra for controlling the fox.


But yeah. It's not a retcon if it's just a newly added detail that doesn't change any previous statements.
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Mohrpheus
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Glory with the Moon. Mercy on the Earth.
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Fixed my last post, for some reason it said "critique" instead of "retcon."

But wow, I completely forgot about Kushina for some reason - she might be the more likely suspect in that case.
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ryukitsune
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Master of Logical Coolness
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I must say I fully agree with Deidara in this chapter. I expected more from Sasori then that. And the act of saying someone is stronger then another without proving it's so continues. Also, I thought that the alliance knowing about Edo Tensei would have also known that a body is used as a sacrifice. Why wouldn't Konoha have told them about this, Considering they have to know this. So much for this battle having a huge impact on the war. Anyway, I glad that Madara has begun to make his plan against Kabuto. I would think that he wants to take action soon now that he has the Rinnegan and basically an ability to counter whatever Edo summon Kabuto has as a defense against him.

I really enjoyed the new info on the Jinchuuriki and how their ability works. It gave us more understanding on what it takes to be a "prefect" Jinchuuriki. Still don't like Naruto's new Jinchuuriki form. I preferred the old one. That was more defined. Also dislike the weird connection made between the Bijuu Blast and Rasengan. I suppose we'll eventual learn that Minato somehow face off against the Hachibi somehow. Once again another example of Naruto following his destined path.
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Mohrpheus
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Glory with the Moon. Mercy on the Earth.
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ryukitsune
Dec 2 2010, 09:17 PM
I must say I fully agree with Deidara in this chapter. I expected more from Sasori then that. And the act of saying someone is stronger then another without proving it's so continues. Also, I thought that the alliance knowing about Edo Tensei would have also known that a body is used as a sacrifice. Why wouldn't Konoha have told them about this, Considering they have to know this. So much for this battle having a huge impact on the war. Anyway, I glad that Madara has begun to make his plan against Kabuto. I would think that he wants to take action soon now that he has the Rinnegan and basically an ability to counter whatever Edo summon Kabuto has as a defense against him.

I really enjoyed the new info on the Jinchuuriki and how their ability works. It gave us more understanding on what it takes to be a "prefect" Jinchuuriki. Still don't like Naruto's new Jinchuuriki form. I preferred the old one. That was more defined. Also dislike the weird connection made between the Bijuu Blast and Rasengan. I suppose we'll eventual learn that Minato somehow face off against the Hachibi somehow. Once again another example of Naruto following his destined path.
He wasn't surprised to see the body because he didn't know it was there, he was surprised to see it because they thought that the jutsu is only supposed to wear off when dispelled by the user, not because the zombie took too much damage.
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Talleyferro
Genin
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Not to overreach based on one page (6) and countless bad guy movie/novel cliches, but anyone thinking Kabuto is tricking the good guys into thinking that the zombies can be defeated through resolving their regrets? Basically, Kabuto's "exclamation" and his internal dialogue, combined with his supposed long distance control (meaning he knows when the zombies dissolve) of the zombies may indicate that he simply timed the demise of Shin and Sasori to make the others believe that this is a legitimate way to get rid of the zombies.

If this is the case, then it would potentially get rid of the sticking point of who can be summoned. As some assume, those without regrets or have moved on cant be summoned (ex. White Fang(?)...Jiraiya(?)...Shin...Sasori) But, if Kabuto is just playing with the ambush squad, then anyone can be summoned. (who isnt in the death God). This would also explain potentially why the 1st and 2nd could be summoned when many of us would have thought that they died with no regrets.

Meh, iono, it seems that if Kabuto says he has " a good feel for it now", AND if he referring to his summonings (presumably feeling the demise of Shin and Sasori), it would seem that he isnt especially frustrated by what happened in the ambush squad, leading me to believe that he is doing this on purpose. BUT, now the hard part of this postulation...WHY?
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ryukitsune
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Master of Logical Coolness
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Mohrpheus
 
He wasn't surprised to see the body because he didn't know it was there, he was surprised to see it because they thought that the jutsu is only supposed to wear off when dispelled by the user, not because the zombie took too much damage.
That couldn't be the case since one Edo summon just died a few minutes before. He was surprise that there was a body, something that was already stated beforehand to be apart of the technique.
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Tonton
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Chuunin
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Hmm... what can I say, my mind is overloaded right now. All the new info on the Jinchuuriki is the cause of it. Well I say the chapter was all right, not the best but all right. My guess is that Minato watched Kushina and then based the rasengan on what she did. Liked how Naruto turned into a little fox, reminded me of the pokemon ninetails. Say, did Ash lose a pokemon?

Well back on topic, I give this chapter a 8/10.
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Mohrpheus
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Glory with the Moon. Mercy on the Earth.
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ryukitsune
Dec 2 2010, 09:44 PM
That couldn't be the case since one Edo summon just died a few minutes before. He was surprise that there was a body, something that was already stated beforehand to be apart of the technique.
Sai was the only one near Shin when he died, and we didn't see a body in his pile of ashes, quite possibly because it exploded the chapter before. Also, it's not like they would have had any time to talk about it in the middle of a battle, especially since that scene immediately flowed into the other two bodies' capture.

I thought those summoned through Edo Tensei were immortal?
He knows that there is a body inside the summon, he's questioning why it's there, since it should only appear when the summon is dead, which was supposed to be impossible.
Edited by Mohrpheus, Dec 2 2010, 09:51 PM.
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rudon17
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Chapter 519.I was not expecting this until nxt week.Wow! will read post my comments when finished reading the chapter.
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horyo
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.
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I'm gonna disregard Naruto in this post to focus on the more important-

Sasori!

Even though some people found the whole "soul release" to be bull or whatever, I thought it tied in perfectly with the recurring theme of the next generation. We kept getting hammered by it earlier on in the Part II series, but this was actually a subtle tie-in that I found suitable for both Kankuro and Sasori. If anything, I'm glad he died the way he did (trust me, I was expecting much, much worse after witnessing Shin's liberation). It gives a sense of closure not unlike his first death, albeit a bit more fulfilling particularly knowing that he wasn't as evil as the rest of Akatsuki, but he wasn't good as the rest of our cast. The neutral mindset made his character seem more fleshed out, and he died accepting that he misconstrued artistic immortality made it pretty heartwarming.

I also like that the characters were also confused as to this flaw in Edo Tensei. In typical series, they'd just brush it off.
Tallyferro
 
This would also explain potentially why the 1st and 2nd could be summoned when many of us would have thought that they died with no regrets.
We have no idea how the second and first Hokage felt when they died. Sure the second may have passed on the torch to the third, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any regrets or soul-bind to the material world.
Edited by horyo, Dec 2 2010, 10:01 PM.
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Kartoon-Man
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Gomu Gomu No
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More bombs? I love it! Now let's attach a chakra string behind this rasengan and let it move around like puppet jutsu.

10/10 and there wasn't even the presence of Tenten.
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MethodMan
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Ninja Academy Student
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Talleyferro
Dec 2 2010, 09:43 PM
Not to overreach based on one page (6) and countless bad guy movie/novel cliches, but anyone thinking Kabuto is tricking the good guys into thinking that the zombies can be defeated through resolving their regrets? Basically, Kabuto's "exclamation" and his internal dialogue, combined with his supposed long distance control (meaning he knows when the zombies dissolve) of the zombies may indicate that he simply timed the demise of Shin and Sasori to make the others believe that this is a legitimate way to get rid of the zombies.

If this is the case, then it would potentially get rid of the sticking point of who can be summoned. As some assume, those without regrets or have moved on cant be summoned (ex. White Fang(?)...Jiraiya(?)...Shin...Sasori) But, if Kabuto is just playing with the ambush squad, then anyone can be summoned. (who isnt in the death God). This would also explain potentially why the 1st and 2nd could be summoned when many of us would have thought that they died with no regrets.

Meh, iono, it seems that if Kabuto says he has " a good feel for it now", AND if he referring to his summonings (presumably feeling the demise of Shin and Sasori), it would seem that he isnt especially frustrated by what happened in the ambush squad, leading me to believe that he is doing this on purpose. BUT, now the hard part of this postulation...WHY?
Totally agree with your theory here! Kabuto's reaction and thoughts on that panel screamed "set-up" to me too!........The WHY part is tricky! Maybe he allows them to fold/dissipate when Madara needs their support at some critical juncture in the near future! Can't wait to see how these two move on one another while fighting the "entire world" at the sametime!
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Twilight_Ninja
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I don't know.


While it's more plausible than most fan theories, I don't see it being the case.


About Hashirama and Tobirama, they very well could have had some form of regret. Giving your life in a heroic sacrifice isn't exactly the same as being free of regret.

I think the flaw is genuine, but in either case, it's good to know that Madara is aware of Kabuto's trickery and is in turn using him.



On the new technique, the more I read it, the more it sounds like Naruto's learning to combine the Rasengan and Bijuu Bomb into a new jutsu in and of itself.

We'll have to see, but if so, I think that's pretty awesome.
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MethodMan
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Plz Kishi-san, PLZ give Naruto the Flying Thunder God tech! Rasen-kamehameha and flying thunder-instant transmission would make for one bada$$ main character!...........He already has fusion down (well kinda with the ol' fox), throw in some sealing jutsu and were all set! Naruto UzuGOKU for Hokage, believe IT!! LOL!!!.......Chapter gets an 8/10!
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MrNoOneKnows
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Ninja Academy Student
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nice chapter kishi is good at bring things together but now i wanna know were the 4th saw i tailed beast
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hachibi_fan
Haha!!! Now i show you my doujutsu.
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did anyone else notice the fox really looked like the fox from kishi novel that naruto was based off of lol
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Holywind
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Amused Fox
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Pretty nice that Kishi still finds the time to work in old drawings. That fox has to be the biggest chapter gap reference yet.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit disappointed in Sasori's resolve. I really hoped the resurrected would have major conflicts to resolve, but I guess that would take to long. I still hope that the other ET have slightly longer dialogue before they find peace. I'm grateful that Deidara is as strong-willed as ever. Nothing would make me happier than for him to be the example of how the alliance plans to permanently deal with the rest.

Ever since we found out the kyuubi still gets resurrected after a host dies, I've been wondering why it healed Naruto. This relationship makes much more sense to me now that its trying to wear down its cage from the inside rather then just waiting for the door to open. I guess with this new technique Naruto might cover the long range jutsu that he was so lacking before. I look forward to it.
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oblivion
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OUR RASENGAN WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN
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dislike the way sasori went out. he seemed very underwhelming...

naruto not being able to go into full kyuubi mode is boring. the danger of him dieing or getting taken over by the kyuubi, even after he's defeated kyuubi in a battle of wills is stupid imo. that was the entire point of the training before. the last thing naruto needs is more restrictions and more reasons to just stay in the old form and use rasengan and clones over and over again...

speaking of rasengan... the amount of disappointment i feel is unfathomable. though honestly, i dont even know why im surprised anymore. even with all this potential, kishi goes back to a new rasengan version...

overall, 2 for deidara still being awesome and one of my favorite villains. 1 for 8 tails talking and NOT rapping.

3/10. fail chapter. lets hope naruto can do more than rasengan's at some point in time...
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Twilight_Ninja
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Jounin
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Holywind
Dec 2 2010, 10:42 PM
Pretty nice that Kishi still finds the time to work in old drawings. That fox has to be the biggest chapter gap reference yet.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit disappointed in Sasori's resolve. I really hoped the resurrected would have major conflicts to resolve, but I guess that would take to long. I still hope that the other ET have slightly longer dialogue before they find peace. I'm grateful that Deidara is as strong-willed as ever. Nothing would make me happier than for him to be the example of how the alliance plans to permanently deal with the rest.

Ever since we found out the kyuubi still gets resurrected after a host dies, I've been wondering why it healed Naruto. This relationship makes much more sense to me now that its trying to wear down its cage from the inside rather then just waiting for the door to open. I guess with this new technique Naruto might cover the long range jutsu that he was so lacking before. I look forward to it.
^Yeah. The mini fox reference to the pilot was great.


Personally, I'm satisfied by the conclusion to Sasori's story. It fit the manga's next generation theme and it just felt like a fitting end to the character's personal story.


But yeah, I'm not sure I want the others to be too quick to fade.


As for the technique, it seems like it'll be a combination of Rasengan and the bijuu chakra blast. If so, it very well could be what you said.


And whether it is a whole new technique in and of itself due to combination or a variation, it seems interesting enough to me. I too am looking forward to seeing it. ^_^


Honestly, I think the amount of variations and the repetitiveness is greatly exaggerated in fandom.


I also liked the background and exposition, though I'll have to go into that in a later post as I'm currently pressed for time. ^_^'

All in all, great chapter! Easy 9 out of 10 from me.
Edited by Twilight_Ninja, Dec 2 2010, 11:12 PM.
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oblivion
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OUR RASENGAN WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN
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Twilight_Ninja
 
Honestly, I think the amount of variations and the repetitiveness is greatly exaggerated in fandom.


that greatly depends on what u classify as a variation.

he has the regular rasengan he uses clones to make. he has the oodama rasengan. he has the wind-chakra infused one. and now he has his one.

if u include different jutsu, he has the few combinations of it he used in his battle of wills with kyuubi where he had a bunch of clones make a lot of rasengan. he also had 1 really big one in the beginning of that battle.

theres also varying sizes to each person's rasengan. minato's seems to be bigger and he didnt use a clone for it (i dont think so anyway). i vaguely remember konohamaru having a really small version of it... i think... and then theres naruto's m,any different sizes and uses and chakra's dating from when he first learned it and it was fairly small to now where he can have it be gigantic and infused with wind chakra and so on... there's also jiraiya's which was a decent size but was nowhere near as powerful and idnt seem to do much dmg besides knock someone out...

as far as the repetitiveness, look at his battle with the kyuubi. all he used was rasengan. all he used against pain was rasengan and taijutsu. he used it against orochimaru as well... its all he does besides clones...

lets take a different route. what other jutsu does naruto use besides rasengan and clones? his entire fighting strategy is clones, rasengan and sage mode. if that dont work, he gets angry and goes kyuubi mode and rips your face off... now the 3rd option is gone so he needs a new rasengan to cover the loss...


Edited by oblivion, Dec 2 2010, 11:23 PM.
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Twilight_Ninja
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Jounin
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I unfortunately don't have enough time for a full reply, so these points will have to do for now. Possibly until tomorrow. [School work is a bit of a priority right now]


1. Naruto knows far more Jutsu than that. Enough for a whole list.


2. For the Pain fight, don't forget Sage Mode, the Toad Katas, and Summons.



I just don't think it's as 'the same routine' as a lot of people even outside this forum make it out to be. I'm really not seeing a lack of variety in fights.
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Lionheart08
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Chuunin
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Can't say I'm ecstatic for another Rasengan variant.
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