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Total Votes: 23
Chapter 656 Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 11:40 PM (2,054 Views)
Shikamaru
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Paperwork Kage
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Sorry, didn't even realize this came out. Discuss!
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Naruto no Kitsune
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Jounin
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I wasn't surprised to see Madara get revived. Figured it would happen, I think it was a mistake to revive before killing off the alliance but I guess Obito forced his hand. I guess this means Neji and the rest will stay dead and no resurrection of Minato permanently.

I really hope Madara has a plan since he can be killed now and still has to face off against the one person he was never able to defeat along with the rest of the alliance. It was nice to see Black Zetsu return though, I figured he was killed off by Mei's bodyguard (the swordsman, can't remember his name). Goodbye Obito.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing Perfect Susano'o soon but hopefully he has something even stronger up his sleeve.
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Kankuro's Bro
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Ninja Academy Student
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I was also surprised that Chojuro didn't finish off Black Zetsu. He cut him almost in half and then stabbed that ludicrous sword through his chest. How is he still alive? Also, where is Chojuro now? He's one of the few likable characters from Mist. Oh well.

Madara is alive now, but I'm really not sure what he plans to do from here. To go forward with his plan, he will have to reabsorb all of the Bijuu, but Gyuki and Kurama are now completely sealed inside people again. I guess he could try to capture and have the statue consume them, but that's a little far fetched with Hashirama interfering and Tobirama and Minato able to play keep away with him. Maybe Obito realized that.

I think this is a satisfying end for Obito, particularly if it leads to Madara's destruction. We didn't get the cheap reset button of everyone coming back to life, but he seems to have redeemed himself in a small way by making Madara mortal when he did. We will see how it plays out.
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case
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Ninja Academy Student
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madara mentioned that he needed to weaken obito in order to take over his body when he thanked naruto for weakening obito. so, does that mean obito knew black zetsu was latching on to him all this time? Any theories as t how Naruto could not sense black zetsu? also, would that then mean black zetsu is composed of madara's cells?
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Rikoduo Sennin
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Genin
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Great Chapter: For a while there I was screaming Noooo at the top of my voice when obito planned to use R.T, Then I became very happy with the outcome:

1)A piece of black Zetsu was inside obito from the beginning, that explains Madara's memories and deep voice obito ones had. The playful voice and personality he had as tobi was white Zetzu's which is still fused to his right hand. Black Zetsu did tried before to take over him but failed.

2) Naruto did the main villian (Madara's) work for him: madara must be linked to black zetzu for him to know what Naruto did since he was fighting hashirama far away.

3)Madara having a mortal body is a good thing:Since he knows about his mortal body his awareness will be heighten (he can't be careless), Since he feels complete (not undead) he can express various emotion like rage in battle, He can apply hashirama's instant healing ability which is a lot faster than E.T revival, he can upgrade himself (unlock another power) in the heat of battle- E.T can surpass the level they were brought or their prime but a living being can surpass his limits!

One versus many, I forsee a repeat of carnage-more and more fighting/jutsu through the entire arc-talk no jutsu won't work on this guy( madara).
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Paladin Leeroy
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Personally I don't really know what to make of all this. What's the significance of Madara reviving himself? I thought being in an ET body would have been preferable since your chakra and flesh regenerate at a fast rate. He grew old before even with Hashirama's cells inside of him, so what's to stop him aging this time?
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Descartes Uzumaki
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Genin
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I have to say this is the chapter we've all been waiting for as predictable as it was. I just like the fact that talk no jutsu is over, Obito is dead, and the real villain of this series is ready to go. I called Madara being the real villain of the series over a year ago so it feels great to be right! Now about the chapter Madara is stronger now than he was as an edo. If you all recall Hashi and Tobirama explicitly stated that their ALMOST at full strength and I believe that is the case for Madara. He was not at his full strength the entire time which is scary for the alliance. I believe this next chapter will be the most epic chapter we've had all year. Something major will happen as we see Madara's plan unfold. I foresee Madara getting another power up but I have no clue what it is.
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kibatsu
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Genin
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Madara having a real body being a good thing is debatable. He now has a chakra limit, he doesn't heal or repair like he did prior to being reincarnated and he can still be sealed away. My guess is that he needs to be actually living in order to achieve his goal.

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RisenTerran
Akatsuki
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Madara fought for like 30 hours or something once, right? I doubt chakra or healing are a concern for him especially with the improvements Orochimaru gave him.

He needs to be alive to contain the ten tails so I guess that is the main objective. It also sounds like it is really annoying to be a Zombie

This was a very predictable but well executed chapter. I'm pleased.
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AburameSenpai
Genin
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kibatsu
Dec 1 2013, 11:40 AM
Madara having a real body being a good thing is debatable. He now has a chakra limit, he doesn't heal or repair like he did prior to being reincarnated and he can still be sealed away. My guess is that he needs to be actually living in order to achieve his goal.

it was stated Madara already basically had unlimited/strong chakra when he was alive in his prime so that doesn't matter. What does is that madara has weaknesses: he can be injured and killed now. if the Alliance realizes this and does either of this in the timeframe before Madara becomes the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki then they can win the war. Hashirama and the Hokage can deal with Madara's Susanoo armour and Naruto or Sasuke can injure him with their arsenal of strong Jutsu. if he becomes the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki he becomes even more a god than already is with all of his powers.

i somehow doubt Obito is dead. i feel like Kishi has other ideas for him even though it's been stated that users of Rinne Tensei die but Kishi's bent the rules for characters before. (i.e Kabuto forever being trapped in Izanami and then Itachi saying there's an escape route built in the technique)
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Mangekyou Sharingan
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Jounin
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I am not sure about anyone else but seeing Naruto launch that Rasen Shuriken at Madara and the Ninja Alliance turning their attention to Madara really got me thinking. Perhaps it would have been wise if both Naruto and the alliance put in the effort to take down the flower before it could bloom. I guess they don't consider it a threat anymore now that Obito has been defeated.

I liked Gaara's interaction with Shukaku and the other Tailed Beast. I got a real kick out of the spin Shukaku put on things while giving his reason for helping Gaara. The Tailed Beast lending a hand against Madara stacks the odds even more against him. With that said though the Tailed Beast all heading towards Madara might be playing right into his hands.

Obito's comment about how you could say it was Jiraiya who defeated him was a nice gesture him. Speaking of Obito, seeing him make an attempt to use Rinne Tensei was no surprise. Many fans had speculated it would come down to that. I was hoping for him to contribute in some other fashion but seeing as he was paralyzed I suppose there wasn't much he could have done.

It was neat to see Black Zetsu make a reappearance and in the process we found out his one true purpose all along. I am happy that Madara finally made his move. As we expected he took advantage of Obito while he was in this weakened condition. At long last Madara has been revived and more than likely aiming to become the next Jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails. Madara once again having a mortal body could be the one glaring weakness that ultimately causes his downfall. Although, I did find his comment about being able to fight at full strength to be interesting. I didn't think he was limited as an Edo Tensei.

I found myself liking this chapter a lot more after a second read through. Originally I had mixed feelings about it but now I think it was pretty good. It was nice to see Sai contribute something. Too bad he wasn't able to act quick enough. It was also good to learn that the Jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails is an exception to the rule that a Jinchuuriki dies whenever their Tailed Beast is removed from them.

Chapter gets a 9.
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Sinedd
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Obito is finished...idk what will happen to him, most likely he'll die. Madara's appearance was fabulous!
Zetsu is loyal to Madara:)
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Sir Kisame
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How Madara lost in a mortal body: Madara got stabbed in the back by Hashirama in the flashbacks; falling for a mokuton clone.

Now Madara gave up his indestructible, perfect susano'o, regenerating edo body for a human body.

Obito, one of the only two uchiha that I thought could not be persuaded and would remain a villain after turning from good, attempted Rinne tensei and lost from talk-no-jutsu.

Although a lot of things I didn't like it still gets a 9 from me. Placing a virtual fiver bet for Madara to be hugged by Hashirama and uses HIS rinne-tensei to resurrect the naruto-verse.
Edited by Sir Kisame, Dec 1 2013, 03:00 PM.
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narutofan85
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Finally the real villain has arrived! First thing's first, I liked the dialogue between shukaku and Gaara, good stuff right there. Even if Obito has the life force of the Gedo he should still die since he used rinne rebirth. Madara being revived was amazing! The way it went down with black zetsu cutting off another one of Obito's speeches was great! And the transference with Madara about being sealed by Sai and busting out while being revived, this chapter gets a 10/10. Hopefully we see another rampage from him, and as he said "crush some skulls"
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BHM1250
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Can someone explain how Hashirama is draining Madara's chakra? I thought Edo Tensei supplied infinite chakra.

It's nice to see interaction between Shukaku and the impatient Gaara. Appearantly the Bijuu be-friended him, like they did with Naruto.

Despite it being nice to see Black Zetsu return, after being defeated by some lame fodder mist character, I was disappointed in this turn-around as I wanted to see Neji return.
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Rikoduo Sennin
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Genin
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We don't need to worry about madara because he has a history of beating the odds. His Edo form could not break free from hashirama's jutsu but he was able to do that after being revived.

Madara can use Hashirama's jutsu, the Sage path jutsu, ying and yang jutsu and he could easily control the bijuus with his doujutsu.
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Salamanca
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Can't kill an idea
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Most likely their chakra supply regenerates quickly like their bodies do so it makes it seem like they have infinite chakra. They may have the same amount of chakra just like they were alive.
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Mohrpheus
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Having Obito sum up the reason for his failure was a nice touch. I was a bit apprehensive about him resorting to Rinne Tensei, but it made sense. I find it kind of funny that he considered living on and repenting for his sins the "easy way out" - it's the opposite of what we usually see. Nonetheless, it was probably the best thing he could have done for the alliance. But of course...

It was nice to see Black Zetsu again. Chojuro did a real number on him, but it doesn't surprise me that he managed to escape. Interesting to hear that this was his purpose all along. I suppose Madara would need some way to force him to go along with the plan. I don't usually draw comparisons, but the whole thing really reminded me of what Pride did to Mustang in Fullmetal Alchemist. That being said, Obito should be done for.

As for Madara... asides from the literal blood rush, I have no clue why he is so ecstatic about being alive again. The only established disadvantage of being an Edo Tensei was that he could not become the Ten Tails' jinchuriki. So asides from that, what advantage is there to him being alive again? He says that he can fight "normally" again, but I find it hard to believe that he is any stronger, or that he can somehow seal all of the beasts into himself at this point. God forbid that he was intentionally holding back the whole time. On top of all that, he can obviously be killed at this point.
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Descartes Uzumaki
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Genin
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Madara was not revived at full strength. That is the reason why him being revived is so vital. It's scary to think what he is capable now that he's at full strength but I do agree he will need a plan or receive a power up to succeed. I believe the moon's eye plans will come to fruition before the arc is over.
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Twilight_Ninja
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Descartes Uzumaki
Dec 1 2013, 11:29 AM
I called Madara being the real villain of the series over a year ago so it feels great to be right!
Um....all of the villains are real villains. And if you meant "main villain," then no. That role still belongs to Tobi/Obito whose actions drove most of the series and created the most of its antagonists. He's the Big Bad.

Madara is at best the "Bigger Bad" whom has a lesser role, but still maintains presence. His effort in the main plot has been pretty nill, though. (Doesn't help that he's been dead until recently)


Mind you, being the final villain does not automatically make you the main one. Especially if you come in during the final act like a lot of surprise final bosses do.


BHM1250
 
Despite it being nice to see Black Zetsu return, after being defeated by some lame fodder mist character, I was disappointed in this turn-around as I wanted to see Neji return.


Really? Now we're gonna label an established and defined character (whom can actually be called a character and has a name) with the same title as a Stormtrooper or any other nameless/faceless mook or red shirt? (It does not matter how late in the game he came in, he's still an established character from one of the Shinobi Villages and is on the same supporting tier as the other non-Leaf Shinobi)

And a member of the Seven Swordsmen, no less? That's kinda stretching it, considering they are the biggest presence of Mist's military forces. (and on the level to act as a bodyguard to the village's Kage)


Edit: My views of the chapter in my next post here. Kinda mixed on it.
Edited by Twilight_Ninja, Dec 2 2013, 10:46 AM.
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Descartes Uzumaki
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Genin
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@ Twilight. I appreciate your opinion on the topic but I firmly disagree. Obitio ambition and plans were literally drawn up by Madara from day 1. Yes Obito has been the face and had to execute most of it but to say he's the big bad when he fell prey to talk no justu solidifies the fact that he had no conviction because it wasn't his idea. You calling him the main villain is a insult to the series.

Appalling was the wrong word
Edited by Descartes Uzumaki, Dec 2 2013, 01:58 PM.
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the Wind
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@Twilight:

its the same thing as Sasuke being constantly manipulated by others to do their bidding. I do agree that obito has been the face of madara, doesn't mean he is the main antagonist of the story. He is influential on key characters as much as madara but in no way that obito was smart enough to cultivate a plan so clever in manipulating the world.

It obvious that Madara is the man to get things done as an antagonist. He is the original in causing this upheaval in the revival of the juubi (god-tree). Throughout the entire story, a mention of his name caused more shivers than our beloved orochimaru whom was thought to be a major antagonist. Even then Twilight you forgot about mentioning orochimaru.

However, i would not go as far to say to be melodramatic as other readers/fans may feel but appalling is not the right word to describe it. It's just cute that some people think this way when they forget some key details.

Cheers :3
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Sempai
Ninja Academy Student
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I thought the main reason that Madara got revived was to become the 10 tails jin. I thought it was stated that only living people could become a jin. So while he loses the benefits of edo, in theory he would use the 10 tails abilities more ruthlessly than Obito did. Obito, even though he didn't admit it originally, was conflicted. Madara has no such restraints.
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BHM1250
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Chuunin
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Twilight_Ninja
Dec 2 2013, 10:45 AM
BHM1250
 
Despite it being nice to see Black Zetsu return, after being defeated by some lame fodder mist character, I was disappointed in this turn-around as I wanted to see Neji return.


Really? Now we're gonna label an established and defined character (whom can actually be called a character and has a name) with the same title as a Stormtrooper or any other nameless/faceless mook or red shirt? (It does not matter how late in the game he came in, he's still an established character from one of the Shinobi Villages and is on the same supporting tier as the other non-Leaf Shinobi)

And a member of the Seven Swordsmen, no less? That's kinda stretching it, considering they are the biggest presence of Mist's military forces. (and on the level to act as a bodyguard to the village's Kage)
All Chojuro did was be the only guy to attack Sasuke within the summit without getting damaged and be the only non-leaf/rogue to defeat an Akatsuki member. On top of those two things, he literally doesn't do anything except act as the Mizukage's watch dog. Even Tenten had more plot justice than Chojuro has. Plus, those two moments I stated were both just simply orders from the Mizukage so it wasn't on his own intention to characters like Darui whom, like Chojuro was late in the series, but still managed to lead a militia versus the twin brothers and Kakuzu. Plus, to make it even less significant, he aides a Kage that literally his no backstory. He's less than support.

Plus, what does his entitlement have to do with anything? You don't see people saying Kurotsuchi is important because she's the Tsuchikage's granddaughter or any talk of Sasuke's parents being jounin, despite their longetivity in the story. Plus, no one even thinks of Chojuro when they think about the SSM. They think about Kisame, Zabuza, and the other deceased members of it. It's like Kishimoto tried to make him some new-gen character for the Mist but failed and instead made him a random bodyguard whom will most likely be killed by Suigetsu for his sword once this war is over.
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Twilight_Ninja
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Jounin
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Okay, I'm one of those who defend Tenten as being more than just filler space for Team Guy's kunoichi, but that is giving her way too much credit....same with Suigetsu whose skills I think you just severely overrated. Mind you, he's not even a real Swordsman of the Mist.

And yeah, being a bodyguard to a powerful village leader is not demeaning or low. It's several steps above stormtrooper/fodder. This is an actual character.

The Seven Swordsmen (though Chojuro's the only surviving official member) are Kirigakure's strongest sword wielders. It's blatant bias to say he's not in the same league as Zabuza or Kisame (that's going right into antagonist reputation bias) or even the others when he met the same qualifications they did and wields his special sword with just as much proficiency. (Even sending someone with Susanoo up flying with a direct blow and the maneuver that undid Black Zetsu's attempt on the Mizukage and Daimyo)

Literally the only thing holding him back, as noted in-story, was his confidence....an issue which was overcome in the Shinobi War.


No comment on Kurotsuchi as family ties are not relevant to the topic at hand. And I don't see what a foregone conclusion of a Ninja rank has to do with it either.

But all in all, yes, he's in the exact same character tier as most of the non-Leaf shinobi (though I probably shouldn't say it like that since most Leaf shinobi aren't main characters). Supporting character (maybe not major supporting character, but still quite a step away from minor character) and one of a few from Kirigakure. (Not that we got to know Kirigakure's specific characters till recently)


Addressing those who talk about Obito, you give Madara far too much credit. He gave Obito what would be needed (the Bijuu and Gedo Mazo) and a few assets to help the plan along (Nagato and Zetsu), but much of the actual stuff done was of Obito's design.

Not all of his actions were part of some omnipotent (which would be Aizen annoying multiplied by ten) plan of things Madara could never know would happen.


The infiltration and attack on the Leaf after ambushing the Fourth and extracting the Nine Tails from its Jinchuuriki at the time, the Uchiha Massacre (though that wasn't in the cards at all other than gaining Itachi's silence), Akatsuki's corruption, controlling the Mist, the actual apprehension of the Tailed Beasts, and the non-Orochimaru-centered conflicts was all Obito. Madara had nothing to do with any of them.


His role in guiding the plan could be summed up as, "I need you to get these Nine Tailed Beasts, put them together in a shell of the creature they were all originally part of, and have this boy I chose to implant my Rinnegan eyes into (and that's not creepy) revive me when that time comes. Good luck with that and do what you will."

Yes, he came up with Infinite Tsukuyomi....but he only provided the destination, not the journey to said destination.


Madara's name may be big in-series....but I find him (just as I do Orochimaru) incredibly underwhelming as an antagonist. His Godlike strength is entertaining, but he irks me with how much of a cat-and-mouser he is. IMO, his reputation is bigger than his actual worth both as a character and as a villain.

And if main villains were sold from being the final ones or from being a last-minute "Man Behind the Man" twist like in the first and third Nolan Batman movies, he would indeed have the spot. Unfortunately, that is NOT what determines a main villain. Just simply being the one behind it all isn't enough. You need to actually be the one driving things along. Villains act, heroes react. And who's been the one acting all these conflicts out all this time?


Now for my comments on the chapter.

I'm really not sure what to think.


I liked the convo between Gaara and Shukaku and the rest of the Tailed Beasts joining in.

The ending twist, though, has given me mixed feelings. Really? Give up your immortality?


Well, he'd better have a plan for enacting his plan because the Tailed Beasts that he had no part of obtaining are now free, and he can actually be killed now. Not a good mix with his annoyingly reckless style from past chapters.

And it's a pretty foregone conclusion at this point that he'll fail since Infinite Tsukuyomi is more or less the equivalent of the Death Star. Game over if it succeeds.


IDK. Maybe he'll bring something to the plate to impress me...but for now, he just doesn't do it for me.


A quote I posted on another forum I'm a part of, and it's one that I still feel holds true to the present day.


Quote:
 
Pop quiz.

Who's the naive, idealistic hero? Naruto.

Who's the dark, cynical anti-hero? Sasuke.

Who's the a-hole everyone will think kicks butt until they realize he's unable to take any situation seriously enough to actually try and they want to dig their brains out with a spork because his apathy's so darn irritating?

That would be the lazily evil one known as Madara. -___-
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